首页 | bbs首页 | 列表页 | 产品论坛 | 博客 | 小游戏 | 游戏 | 软件论坛 | 游戏论坛
bbs.zol.com.cn 中关村在线论坛 - N饭俱乐部 点击数:293  [搜索] [收藏]

GTX 270,290及其双核版本下个月推出

楼主    2008-10-11 15:35:45
小动
[我要置顶
[显示器版][超频技术]版主
八品[36799经验]八品[36799经验]八品[36799经验]
文章:278
精华:30
性别:男
注册:2006-08-24
 

刚在国外网站看到,个人感觉应该属实滴,呵呵

 

Nvidia 270, 290 and GX2 roll out in November

 

 

IF YOU WERE wondering why Nvidia put out the GTX260-216 with a stupid-sounding name instead of the saner 270 moniker, here is your answer. There is a 270 coming, it will have a big brother called the 290, and a dual card code named "China Syndrome"(1).

Yeah, NV is in deep doo-doo right now. The card that was meant to power its way to profits, the GTX280, went from $649 at launch to $499 a few weeks later. A quarter or so on, it is selling retail for sub-$400 prices here and there. AIBs tell us that the 260 costs an ironic $260 to make, which closely matches the teardown numbers we have seen. Toss in the mandatory 15 per cent markup at the retail level, and if you see one for sale at under $300, someone is eating money. Basically, if you can make money on these parts, something is wrong.

From the October 6, 2008 Graphics Monthly report

On the up side, the 280 is the single fastest GPU on the market. On the down side people don't buy GPUs, they buy graphics cards, and the 280 is not the single fastest graphics card on the market. That honour goes to the ATI 4870X2 by a large margin. With the new-gen GT200 parts, Nvidia loses on all fronts, performance, performance per dollar, and performance per watt, they simply aren't competitive.

That brings us to the new parts, the 270 and 290. They popped up on a PNY price list a few weeks ago, and then were pulled off immediately. This part is what we were calling the GT200b in May, but the public code name is GT206. It is simply an optically shrunk GT200, so clock for clock, you won't get any speed boost out of it. It is meant to fatten up the margins by reducing cost. If the GT200 is a 576mm^2 die, and the 206 is around 460mm^2 (~21mm*21mm die), even with the more expensive 55nm process, NV should save some money.

One big problem though is yield. GT200s started out at 40 per cent yield, that is for the 280 and the yield salvage 260, and were up to a hair above 60 per cent last time we looked. Toss in the smoothly-named GTX260-216, and you screw up the binning a lot. When you transition to a new process, yield almost always goes down, so this part should be back in at the bottom of the yield toilet, not that 60 per cent is out of the bowl, in short order.

So what are the 270 and 290? That is easy, they are 55nm GT200s, aka GT200b, aka GT206. Nothing new, nothing spectacular at all. Why the new name then, other than desperation, if you get nothing different clock for clock? Well, that is easy, Nvidia simply has to bump up margins, and the easiest way to do that is to snow customers.

If you remember what they did when changing the name on the 8800GT to the 9800GTX, it is the same thing. Partners can't make money, and a name change will make the stupid fanbois out there line up. Milking the stupid is a time-honored tradition in the GPU world, and since the 55nm shrink of the G92, the G92b sold less worse when they renamed it the 9800GTX+, it looks like they are trying it again. No, not the GT1xx, this time it is going to be less egregiously renamed to the 270 and 290.

When you shrink a chip, there are three main benefits, area, power and speed, with the last two being a tradeoff of sorts. Going from 65nm to 55nm, you shrink to about 70 per cent of the area, and save a bit of power. The power savings, however, are not quite 30 per cent off the top and, in addition to that, you also lose more on leakage, as smaller structures leak more. People who have done the same shrink at TSMC tell us that you net far less than 20 per cent. Let's be generous and call the power savings 15 per cent.

The 280 has a TDP of 236W and the 260 is at 182W, with the 260-216 somewhere in between. Since the RAM, external circuitry, power regulators and fans don't scale at all, we will ballpark the board level power savings at 10 per cent. That would put theoretical 270s at 164W and the 290 at 212W, at the same clocks, but lets be overly generous and call it 160 and 200, just to give NV the benefit of the doubt.

As always with transistors, you can take the power savings as such while keeping the clocks the same, or keep power consumption the same and jack up speed. Guess which one NV is going to do? Hint: "20W less power consumption!" on the side of the box won't sell many cards. You would be better off airbrushing bigger nipples on the chrome chick cover art.

So, in the end, the 270 and 290 are simply a little faster 260s and 280s. Whoopty-fricking-ding-dong. They will be relaunched as the second coming, and sites that are far to afraid to be cut off will parrot back the NV sermon. It won't be fast enough to beat a 4870X2, not even close, but it will let NV jack up prices just in time for Christmas, giving their partners a desperately-needed few points of margin. NV fanbois will line up for it, and wonder why they took such a bath on the $650 280s they bought.

These cards were supposed to be out in late August or early September, but are now set for November. That is about time enough for a single respin, so something must have gone a bit pear shaped. In any case, it is much less delayed than the GT212, but that is another article entirely. AIBs just got their 270/290 boards recently, so both are a few weeks out yet.

If you are underwhelmed, then the dualie card is for you. We haven't seen a code name for it officially, but NV AIBs are talking about it. Take a 55nm GT200b/206 and put two PCBs together a la the 9800GX2, and you get the idea. There is one minor problem this time... heat.

The G92 (8800GT/9800GTX/GT15x) was coolable, barely, with a single slot cooler. The GT200 is not. Even with a theoretical 20 per cent lower power draw, you would be at 290W for a dual 55nm 260 clone. If you use a 260-216 or jack the clock up, you are at 300+W in an instant, and we can see 350W without trying hard.

Normally, you would do what ATI did with the 3870X2 and downclock it a bit. Not much, just a little, and take the power savings. The problem is that the 260 loses already to the cheaper 4870, and two of them wouldn't be much of a fight against the 4870X2. At a minimum, you need 2 260-216s, or better yet two upclocked 260-216s to pip the 4870X2 and claim a hollow victory.

NV is in a real bind here, it needs a halo, but the parts won't let it do it. If they jack up power to give them the performance they need, they can't power it. Then there is the added complication of how the heck do you cool the damn thing. With a dual PCB, you have less than one slot to cool something that runs hot with a two slot cooler. In engineering terms, this is what you call a mess.

Given NV's problems of late with cooling, (here, here, and here) it is in a bind, but there is no way out of this, none at all. The only thing it can do is resort to unethical tactics, and that is what we think it will do here. The only solution open to NV is to cherry pick ultra low power GT200b parts and make a small run of GX2s that don't burn a hole in the bottom of your case on their way down to the center of the earth.

If this case follows past tactics, NV will make a very small run of parts and claim there is full production. Think 1000 parts or so, most of which go to reviewers. The rest will go to high-profile marketers, think Newegg, and they will sell out. When people cry for more, the usual 'high demand' lines will be spun, and they will dribble out 10-20 cards here and there to keep up appearances.

Pricing will likely be right on top of the 4870X2, maybe $50 more in order to bolster the performance claims, and they will be undoubtedly be sold at a loss. Then again, with the number likely to be made, it is chump change to take a small bath on each one to claim the lead for Christmas.

In any case, if the three upcoming parts, the 270, 290 and GX2 look like naked desperation attempts to grab at a halo, you are right. Upping the clocks will hit NV in the bottom line at the end of the quarter, their margins will suffer because of this stupidity. Fanbois will love it, massively subsidised parts are great deals for consumers. In fact, you will likely see massively discounted 260s and 280s in a few weeks when the new parts hit the street. They won't save Nvidia's bacon, but they may help partner margins. For a short time. At a high price. µ

(1) It was code named "Smoking Sepuku", but Nvidia didn't want to publicly suggest that this strategy was vaguely related to anything honorable, so it was renamed. We saw the memo, it was poignant. (2)

(2) We are, of course, making this all up.

 

 
 
  某位网友:“8600能超到6.7G,那我的8400空冷5.5G稳定用没问题吧?” 我听完这话,当时就哭了......
 
  举报
1 楼    2008-10-11 15:42:32
小动  
[显示器版][超频技术]版主
八品[36799经验]八品[36799经验]八品[36799经验]
文章:278
精华:30
性别:男
注册:2006-08-24
 
如果国内价格真的像表内的价格就好了,,
  某位网友:“8600能超到6.7G,那我的8400空冷5.5G稳定用没问题吧?” 我听完这话,当时就哭了......
 
  举报
2 楼    2008-10-11 16:50:13
《萧十一狼》  
[超频技术]版主
九品[15972经验]九品[15972经验]
文章:750
精华:6
性别:男
注册:2005-10-15
 
双核比较不现实哦,受功耗、发热量限制
  萧十一狼
 
  举报
3 楼    2008-10-11 16:51:14
HardFly100  
[主板综合讨论]版主
状元[6662经验]状元[6662经验]状元[6662经验]状元[6662经验]
文章:488
精华:35
性别:男
注册:2007-05-27
 

给小动的帖子补个相关的Chinese报道:

NVIDIA在将GeForce GTX 260升级到216个流处理器的时候并没有抬高编号数字,只是地在后边加上了“Core 216”字样。那么为什么不将新的增强版叫作GeForce GTX 270呢?原因很简单,因为真正的GeForce GTX 270就要来了,还有更高端的GeForce GTX 290,它们也就是让人期待已久、望眼欲穿的55nm工艺新版GT200核心。

55nm GT200一直被叫作GT200b,但实际上是“GT206”,而且它应该不止是65nm GT200简单地改进工艺后的产物。种种迹象表明,GTX 270会和GTX 206 Core 216一样拥有216个流处理器,比GTX 260多出24个,当然GTX 290还是和GTX 280一样继续配备完整的240个。

新工艺必然会减小核心面积的尺寸,从而有利于控制发热量和制造成本,理论上也能让核心频率再提高一些,但NVIDIA还没有最终确定是否这么做,因为还必须考虑整卡功耗问题。新工艺固然有利于降低功耗,但对如此大规模的图形芯片来说无异于杯水车薪。GTX 260/280的热设计功耗是182/236W,而如果55nm工艺能降低10%,那GTX 270/290也会有164/212W,忽略个位数字的话就是160/210W,仍然不低,因此提高频率的话必然会像9800 GTX+那样,抵消改进工艺带来的好处。

另外良品率也是个问题。GT200在制造初期只有可怜的40%,上次我们听说的消息是已经提高到60%。考虑到NVIDIA在55nm方面才算刚入门,GT206的良品率估计也不会太高,即使达到60%也还不够,还是会影响成本。

事实上,NVIDIA最初的计划是在8月底到9月初就将GeForce GTX 200系列升级到55nm,但不知为何一直拖延到了11月份,厂商合作伙伴也是直到最近才拿到新卡的样品。

话又说回来,55nm GTX 270/290固然能给NVIDIA高端产品线带来一丝新鲜气息,但性能方面却不会有多少惊喜,也无法稳坐3D性能王者宝座。G92时代还能组成双卡双芯的GeForce 9800 GX2和Radeon HD 3870 X2一较高低,但那时候的G92没有这么热。现在Radeon HD 4870 X2已经领跑了很久,NVIDIA却无法再如法炮制。如果将两块GTX 290放在一起,那么理论热设计功耗能超过400W,这是无法接受的,而降低频率的话又会损失性能;使用两块GTX 270也不现实,毕竟我们都已经看到了,GTX 260 Core 216也是整体落后于Radeon HD 4870的

另附GeForce GTX 280、Radeon HD 4870近期平均价格趋势:

55nm GT200下月见:定名GeForce GTX 270/290

  忙
 
  举报
4 楼    2008-10-11 17:47:56
小动  
[显示器版][超频技术]版主
八品[36799经验]八品[36799经验]八品[36799经验]
文章:278
精华:30
性别:男
注册:2006-08-24
 
对 3楼 HardFly100 说:
=========================

你这个我中午12点的时候就看了 hehe
  某位网友:“8600能超到6.7G,那我的8400空冷5.5G稳定用没问题吧?” 我听完这话,当时就哭了......
 
  举报
5 楼    2008-10-11 20:57:03
找你一百元  
[N饭俱乐部]版主
八品[34458经验]八品[34458经验]八品[34458经验]
文章:4691
精华:28
性别:男
注册:2005-06-05
 
期待啊,看看价格如何
  发现问题很难,解决问题更难→发现问题是水平,解决问题是能力
 
  举报
6 楼    2008-10-13 15:11:54
zol_光辉岁月  
状元[9273经验]状元[9273经验]状元[9273经验]状元[9273经验]
文章:425
精华:1
性别:男
注册:2004-12-16
 
还好有翻译的
   学习中
 
  举报
7 楼    2008-10-17 16:30:24
3P斩---》狼  
[N饭俱乐部]版主
状元[7210经验]状元[7210经验]状元[7210经验]状元[7210经验]
文章:183
精华:1
性别:男
注册:2006-12-03
 
···不期待这种过度玩意
现在最期待 INTEL···
哈哈哈
  
 
  举报
欢迎你 论坛游客: 回帖之前,请先登录 用户名: 密码: 10秒快速注册
回复帖子   
操作
粗体 斜体 下划线 上传图片 使用表情 链接
 [完成后可按 Ctrl+Enter 发布]
  每日精选
08年装机怪现象
08年装机怪现象
·WPBA博客大会首尔印象:第四篇会议现
·IT博客名人:聪明的山寨机厂商与宇龙
·绝对值得收藏的电脑技巧之31—40
·IT博客名人:百度应设法避免成为分众
·极品飞车12极道车神种子下载(转载游侠
·我的优化PC:使命召唤5第一手秘籍详细
装机必备软件
装机必备软件
大片热片免费看
大片热片免费看
·HTC Touch HD到货!改版诺记N73仅1390
·影音游戏好选择 热门迅驰2独显本推荐
·"扣肉"对羿龙 800元内CPU选谁更超值?
·实战使命召唤5 内地最强790GX游戏测试
·报价:22液晶狂降600元/19液晶降300元
·安全U盘小调查
暴风影音3.1
暴风影音3.1
  热门帖子TOP10
1
我的优化PC:双敏96GT激战“孤岛”
2
市面常见显卡性能分析与推荐
3
新入手9600GSO居然是0.8的
4
华师测评组惊现神物GTX280
5
8600GTS 怎么样??????
6
推荐下载:优化版GeForce 180.44驱动
7
看看我的配置,跑3D得的分正确么?
8
GTX280该用什么机箱?
9
求助:关于星际2不兼容双核CPU的问题
10
关于3DMARK06跑这个配置的一个问题
更多相关帖子>>
硬件论坛:DIY与攒机 笔记本 硬件高手
  产品论坛 手机  笔记本  数码相机  CPU  显卡
风光摄影知多少?
风光摄影知多少?
玩游戏怎么选显卡
玩游戏怎么选显卡
笔记本普及低价
笔记本普及低价
手机行业受影响
手机行业受影响

ZOL简介 | 用户注册 | 广告服务 | 人员招聘(月) | ZOL历程 | 互动营销中心 | 站点地图 | 联系方式 | 欢迎投稿 | RSS订阅 | 友情链接
北京海淀区知春路113号银网中心A座9F 传真:010-62529275 反馈留言板 欢迎批评指正
Copyright © 1999 - 2008 ZOL. All rights reserved. 中关村在线 版权所有. 京ICP证010391号